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  #1  
Old 03-11-2008, 12:14 AM
xplornetadmin xplornetadmin is offline
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Default HYDRO ONE and smart meters... a new broadband???

Going to be looking into this, as while shoveling my driveway today... a hydro one truck shows up on the road and proceeded to install the new smart meteres on everyones house...

A bit concerned... at first.. have heard they may interfere with wireless internet.. but actually am now intrigued... was told we wouldn't be live for at least a year as they had to put the antennas on the poles to read the meters...

tech mode kicked in and here's a thought.. hydro will save millions by having the meters read every month wirelessly and basically creating a rural broadband wireless network by doing so.. why couldn't we tap into that network and turn it into a broadband one... they win win... they are saving money by doing the smart meters ( and labour/costs for the meter readers who wouldn't have to come out every three months) AND then having people use the wireless network for the internet and pay them $50 bucks a month or so for doing it!!!!... something to look into or just call and ask hydro one/ or your utility if they have/had thought about doing a co existing network!!

I sent an email to Hydro one networks asking if this was an option a plan or an idea they were considering...and asked to be considered as a test user... maybe if more people did the same... hmmmm bye bye xplornet!!
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  #2  
Old 03-14-2008, 01:11 PM
400mfromtower 400mfromtower is offline
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Default

That would cut out the xplornot middle-man, as we're all attached to the Hydro-one backbone in the Quinte region anyway.

I've had my smart meter for a few months and have not noticed any issues with it, apart from that it's not very useful for the home user when compaired to the spinning disk models - ie. at least with the disk one could turn off items in the house to narrow down the top power sucking devices (electric tea kettle is by far the worse, over the oven, the toaster, and then the fridge).

Hydro-one could just add a section to the hydro bill for the internet and dish out username and passwords. For people who setup "back to the grid" electrical systems, that's one more "free" thing they would get.
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  #3  
Old 03-14-2008, 06:57 PM
xplornetadmin xplornetadmin is offline
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Here's though maybe Hydro one could buy out xplornet, use its wireless system for dual internet/smartmeter monitoring...

everyone has hydro... why clutter up the wireless bandwidth.. think of all the grants for "rural broadband" AND for installing "smartmeters" they could rake in to cover the costs!!!

Hydro one are you listening!!!
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  #4  
Old 03-21-2008, 07:46 PM
xplornetsuck xplornetsuck is offline
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Here's some links for internet over powerline in Dallas.

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/D...owerline-92853

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...v.3b03899.html

BC will be getting it's smart meters in about 5 years(maybe). They are just going in to the second year of testing to ensure that the meter reads the power use correctly, etc. Otherwise not much information on the smart meters.
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  #5  
Old 03-28-2008, 08:10 PM
xplornetadmin xplornetadmin is offline
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Pleasantly surprised by a phone call I recieved from hydro One telecom... I had sent in this email on Monday:
To
business.customer.centre@hydroone.com

Recently I had a smart meter installed on my rural property here in Trenton, Ontario, and I have a couple of questions and suggestions.

First off, I have wireless internet provided by xplornet, which runs at the 2.4 mhz spectrum. According to info supplied to me, your smart meter also operates at this frequency, potentially interfering with my wireless reception.
My contract with xplornet is written such that "THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE SERVICE IS WITH YOU. (the customer)"

That being said, if your technology interupts or interferes with my wireless broadband, its my problem and I will have to continue to pay and no remedy for such interuptions.

Secondly, I run an internet site called xplornetsucks.com, that is a forum for xplornet wireless/satellite users to share their experiences and issues. As the only available "broadband" available to most rural people is either wireless or satellite service, I wanted to ask if Hydro one was considering using the smart meter roll out and its technology to offer its customer broadband internet.

The cost's for the current rural rollout could be defrayed by such a service, currently with xplornet, our installation costs range from $100-$500 depending on the technology, and then $40 -$150 a month for internet access.

As xplornet currently buys bandwidth from hydro one for its backbone, the only thing that Hydro one isn't offering, is the route from the consumers home to the towers. With your smart meters and the wireless repeaters to transmit the hydro info, Hydro one could effectively urbanise the rural community with broadband service by piggybacking internet to the technology.

Not only are government grants available for implementing internet access, reasonable installation fees, plus monthly access fees would make the smart meter roll out a truly smart move by offering internet service.

I hope that this is a matter that Hydro One would consider SERIOUSLY, the savings to be had for the installation of smart meters , plus the added bonus of huge revenues of providing internet to rural customers who are very limited at present, and to be honest are not satisfied with what they are receiving for what they are paying for, could be a win win situation for everybody.

Thank you for your time and consideration to this matter, If I can help with info in any way I would be happy to do so.. I will be posting this message on my website, so that others may contact you to express their desire for such a service, or to express their concerns as to how your service may interfere or interupt their wireless and what remedies may be available

Thank you


We talked a bit about potential interference issues with the wireless smart meters and xplornet wireless.. but more interesting we talked about the possibility of piggybacking the smart meter service with internet.
To make a long story short... my email was forwarded to a VP for viability and consideration... they are currently running a trial system along this lines.. but if it happens it won't be for a few years... This kind of service could benefit current xplornet wireless and satellite subscribers... so the more people that express an interest or desire for such a co-existing network... send them an email, offer to be a trial site.. let them know the effort will be worth it... while we all may hate big companies locking up a market.. I would take my chances that they would be regulated in some way to protect us... unlike xplornet and its service and contracts that change at the drop of the hat, or for whatever benefits them. If your not in Ontario... still contact your local hydro company and refer them to this message...I personally think its a win win situation, for everybody, the consumers and the hydro companies looking to advance their technologies and save costs, but the bonus is us rural internet users could actually get true broadband... hell.. even call your local MP and suggest this as "THE" most viable rural broadband delivery service... sorry xplornet... you suck too much and I hope this hydro delivery method shuts you down, you don't deserve to be in business!!

Just wanted to add, the scope of adding these smart meters and the technology needed for it to work is like bell canada giving every home telephone service... the scope of the work required is huge, and for rural customersthe potential to be brough back into the broadband divide, makes this a very important issue... and one that should be taken adavantage of...the hydro co's have the money and the technology..and hell discussing this issue with my mother tonight... the first words out her mouth were, maybe aadding this service would help pay down the debt us Ontario hydro customers have to pay each month...!!! If that aint a reason to help push this plan forward...

PLEASE... send a quick email to your Hydro Co and express an interest... they are the only major utility making a major investment in infra stucture that could potentially benefit rural customers... any one seeing bell add dsl to rural areas, any cable co's giving you TV or braodband??? The cost for Hydro One will be huge, but they are taking the right steps... we will all pay for this one way or another.. increased debt... but if they gave us internet and we paid them instead of crappy companies like xplornet... ???
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  #6  
Old 04-05-2008, 11:02 AM
krw krw is offline
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Default smart meters = low bandwidth

The usual 'smart' wireless meter reader is a low-bandwidth (64 Kbps typical) device designed to be queried from the roadside by a meter reader who no longer has to leave their car, but can simply drive down the street.

They are typical of devices used for SCADA (supervisory control and data acquisition, with which I have some years of tech experience), in that they only transfer a small amount of data (often less than 1 Kb) on demand, and are not in continuous communication with anything. Even if it were possible, ISP via such devices would be much slower than dialup.
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  #7  
Old 03-29-2009, 02:14 PM
Vicerfast Vicerfast is offline
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Default This is not typically what is going on

In the states most meters are using cell signal to get the meter readings. Thus far in Canada what I am seeing is the use of the 3.5 Ghz band for this. A lic held by Rogers in most places. Several smaller gas co-ops are renting this bandwidth for their own meter reading and it will have the bandwidth to support Internet.

That being said there are issues with using this that I will not get into today. The one big issue I see is the wipe out this is going to do to all the smaller wisps that broke their backs to provide service to a smaller customer base because nothing else was there. Companies who do not make the revenue of a larger corp that will get washed out. The supporting companies that have installers, usually as an addition to their computer or service business.

In short, the big getting bigger while the little guy gets wiped out.

Here is another thought, do not pay the bill, do you still have gas or hydro? Pay your Internet or your will freeze this winter.
Telus combined their wireless phone service branch with the regular. Don't pay the cell bill, guess what no home phone either.

Now there are some NLOS capabilities with 3.5 Ghz however what about if their is not a good enough signal to connect from the location of the gas meter and there or no utility poles to mount a booster or antenna? It requires modification and mounting of gear on your home. What if you have service from somewhere else and do not want the gear on your building? What if you are 85 and do not what Internet and do not want gear mounted on your home?

What if the company who is renting this space from Rogers / Bell loses that right because during renegotiation they did not want to pay the new price. What if the band gets saturated like the current 3G network and customers need to have data affected to 1: allow for the proper transmission of the meter read or 2: the lic holder (Rogers) needs more bandwidth to satisfy its own need.
Or better yet lets not get into the net neutrality discussion that Bell was before the CRTC over whereby the decided to queue and shape all youtube, p2p and etc affecting not only all Bell customers but all of Bell data resellers as well.

Do I think that this move by utility providers to get into the game is good. Yes and no. While there needs to be companies big enough to shake up the CRTC and start to level the playing field for all, not just the telco, there also needs to be some serious consideration placed an allowing companies to venture into this area.

Personally I think that the telcos and utility companies need to be a simple provider of facilities. That communication and utility companies should then purchase space on that network to provide service to the end user.
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  #8  
Old 03-30-2009, 09:17 PM
xplornetadmin xplornetadmin is offline
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Hi and welcome and thanks for the info, even if it is incorrect!. I guess it wasn't clear in my original and subsequent posts, but Hydro One's meters, operateon the 2.4 spectrum.

To be specific, my hydro one meter has a model number NCZR111P1, upon which a google search provided this document http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/pics/lm/el.../ae/1517r4.pdf

Further examination of the document refers to Trillian providing the guts for the wireless part (also written on my meter)... and a google search comes up with this document.. http://www.trilliantinc.com/2_Prdcts...ntMeshGate.pdf ,which states ... and is definately worth a look at!!!
SecureMesh
TM 2.4 GHz Advanced

Communications Network

Trilliant SecureMesh
? communications network is the industry?s most
advanced and interoperable utility network architecture solution available
on the market. It provides secure, scalable WAN access and device
management for mesh-connected AMI devices such as electric, gas
and water meters. It provides an instantaneous enterprise-to-gateway
connectivity to residential and commercial locations. Information is
available on-schedule, on-demand or on-event, from virtually anywhere, via these wireless communication devices. It is a true peer-to-peer multi-hop communications architecture.
Conforming to IEEE 802.15.4 and ANSI open standards, the SecureMesh
solution supports major WAN networks and backhaul platforms, including
CDMA/1xRTT, Ethernet, Fiber, GSM/GPRS, iDEN, WiFi, WiMAX, CATV and

Canopy
? backhaul solutions.

Notice the bold Canopy!!!

Now lets address the affect on small wisps... as it stands now... Xplornet is being the BULLY of the rural wireless industry. The small/local wisps are being shut out of being given money to provide the same service Xplornet wants to enter, then Xplornet effectively interferes with the small wisps by creating interference, by broadcasting at the same frequencies causing alot of headaches and possible loss of customers. It would be interesting to see how many of the small wisps in Northhumberland county, start having issues once Xplornet sets up there!!!

Effectively, Hydro One could lease from, or buy out the smaller wisps existing networks... because it needs to get the coverage.. whereas Xplornet gets the big government bucks , duplicates the network... etc etc..

Please take a look at the second PDF, as it graphically display just how Hydro One's network will operate.... and as it looks it will either compete with or conflict with Xplornet... promising or a problem???

Mike


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicerfast View Post
In the states most meters are using cell signal to get the meter readings. Thus far in Canada what I am seeing is the use of the 3.5 Ghz band for this. A lic held by Rogers in most places. Several smaller gas co-ops are renting this bandwidth for their own meter reading and it will have the bandwidth to support Internet.

That being said there are issues with using this that I will not get into today. The one big issue I see is the wipe out this is going to do to all the smaller wisps that broke their backs to provide service to a smaller customer base because nothing else was there. Companies who do not make the revenue of a larger corp that will get washed out. The supporting companies that have installers, usually as an addition to their computer or service business.

In short, the big getting bigger while the little guy gets wiped out.

Here is another thought, do not pay the bill, do you still have gas or hydro? Pay your Internet or your will freeze this winter.
Telus combined their wireless phone service branch with the regular. Don't pay the cell bill, guess what no home phone either.

Now there are some NLOS capabilities with 3.5 Ghz however what about if their is not a good enough signal to connect from the location of the gas meter and there or no utility poles to mount a booster or antenna? It requires modification and mounting of gear on your home. What if you have service from somewhere else and do not want the gear on your building? What if you are 85 and do not what Internet and do not want gear mounted on your home?

What if the company who is renting this space from Rogers / Bell loses that right because during renegotiation they did not want to pay the new price. What if the band gets saturated like the current 3G network and customers need to have data affected to 1: allow for the proper transmission of the meter read or 2: the lic holder (Rogers) needs more bandwidth to satisfy its own need.
Or better yet lets not get into the net neutrality discussion that Bell was before the CRTC over whereby the decided to queue and shape all youtube, p2p and etc affecting not only all Bell customers but all of Bell data resellers as well.

Do I think that this move by utility providers to get into the game is good. Yes and no. While there needs to be companies big enough to shake up the CRTC and start to level the playing field for all, not just the telco, there also needs to be some serious consideration placed an allowing companies to venture into this area.

Personally I think that the telcos and utility companies need to be a simple provider of facilities. That communication and utility companies should then purchase space on that network to provide service to the end user.
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  #9  
Old 03-30-2009, 11:30 PM
grafton-one grafton-one is offline
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Default hydro????

I see that this is an old topic but wanted to put in my two cents. If Hydro can't get the power system right without going heavily into debt, how are they supposed to fugure out the internet?

In Ontario Hydro is using a licensed 900Mhz frequence at a very low power and throughput capacity. They were sold equipent that is bound to fail. Another waste of money from Hydro. These smart meters also have a wired modem in them that can transfer data over the power lines so I have been told. But who really wants more noise over the power system?
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  #10  
Old 04-01-2009, 08:24 PM
theotherguy theotherguy is offline
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Posts: 35
Default Smart meters and the Internet

Read it all and would to throw in my 2c CAD (oops that don't amount to much Euro).
To date Hydro Utilities Have Not convinced their controlling Auth. that they can deliver internet and read meters at the same time.
Please undertand the purpose of the "connection" is to read your meter - period.
Yes, they do not have a tremendous amount of Bandwidth on the 900 mhz freq. (as per my SA pointed at my meter).
The losers who sold the system to the Utilities were not interested in your problem about high speed internet (Slightly better sharks (if that is true ;-) in the rural communities.


P.S.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
If you have a Local ISP in your community support them no matter how much they suck, at the end of the day, they are the only ones who really care about you.
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